Need feedback - 125 2-stroke motocrossers from 1995-2005

[QuietMonkey]

Hey gang,

I am going to start hunting for a 125 MX bike from 1995-2005. Likely right in the middle of that range is where I will be purchasing, but sometimes there are deals on older or newer bikes around.

If you've owned or ridden them a reasonable amount, toss your feedback in: Power characteristics, suspension, steering, handling, maintenance, durability, upgrades... the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all.

The bike will be used on track only as I have no intention of doing any casual stuff with it. I remember the 1996 Yam's made a good step in midrange, compared to the peaky '91-'92 models I owned. I rode a buddy's 1999 KTM 125SX which was set up for racing Pro class (suspension and engine mods)-- it was an awesome bike. The light weight is what I really love compared with the piped '89 YZ250 I used to own and a friends mellow off-road friendly '92 KX250 that I liked riding a lot.

No interest in 4-strokes, due to total cost of ownership, so unless you're comparing experiences between your 125 and your 250F than dont worry about 4-stroke info.

So WHAT D'YA KNOW?

[Wrider]

Cost of ownership difference? Oil/filter changes yes, but you don't burn your oil and your top end lasts a lot longer on a 4 stroke. They're a bit heavier is why people don't tend to like them.

Don't have much useful info other than that though. I know Zuke's suspension was ahead of the curve, and I know a lot of people like the Yami engine characteristics.

[HYPERR]

No interest in 4-strokes, due to total cost of ownership

I don't understand how 4-stroke has a higher cost of ownership?

I've never really heard anyone ever use that as a reason for picking a 2-smoke. The usual reason are the light weight, peak power and the fact that a 2-smoke will spank a 4-stroke beyond belief.

[Wrider]

I've never really heard anyone ever use that as a reason for picking a 2-smoke. The usual reason are the light weight, peak power and the fact that a 2-smoke will spank a 4-stroke beyond belief.

Yup, no torque but 60% more peak HP means something!

[QuietMonkey]

re Power - I'm not talking about a 250-2s vs a 250-4s. The motocross racing classes permit 125-2s vs 250-4s. This is what riding on the track is about - racing. For playbike and trail riding there are many more options when displacement is not about the rulebook (KDX220,WR250, or WR250f,WR450f, DRz400 if you wanna 4stk, etc.etc.)

quick response --> the total-cost-of-ownership discussion took place industry wide... oh... about 5-10 years ago.

Given the developments of the past 20-years a single cylinder 4-stroke engine of about twice the displacement can now be used competitively as a replacement for a 2-stroke motor in a motocross application. The rulebooks used to allow even larger displacement advantages to the 4-strokes. When the advantages of racing a 250-4stroke against a 125-2stroke, and 450-4s vs 250-2s came into play it pretty much changed the face of racing. With this class structure and the current 4-strokes, the 4-stroke is the faster bike on the track.

Since about 2005 all the factories run 4-strokes because that's what the manufacturers want to sell. KTM, Yamaha, TM and a few others still offer competitive 2-strokes to the public while others are all 4strk in anything but the 85cc-100cc categories. Honda dumped there CR85 for a CRf150 and the weight gain is acceptable to most.

Average owners discovered that there highly-tuned 4-stroke motocrossers were wearing out much quicker than they anticipated and that they were very expensive to maintain and rebuild over the long-term compared with 2-strokes. They (quite naturally) had much higher maintenance requirements than things like XR400s. There is nothing new or amazing about this.

Independent team owners like Kenny Roberts and Mitch Payton made it clear to the public long ago that it costs 3 to 4 times the amount of money to maintain these high-perf 4-stroke race bikes.

There's a large world economy with a hand in this game and like many things, politics helps feed you 4-strokes. They aren't going to recommend what they don't sell. And like politicians whatever they're selling is best for you. Flaws are denied and hidden, even in the face of reality. They have lots of marketing dollars to use for there benefit.

Motocross magazine editors played hush for awhile but began publishing stories about the costs of maintaining, rebuilding and modifying the current racing 4-strokes. This is all stuff that the majority of day-in-day-out race mechanics have known since day one and any decent home mechanic who races and keeps records already knows this too. People accept it because they like there bikes, and if they're having fun then it's all fair to them...

The bigger reality is the simplicity of the electric motor is already making huge gains so there's nothing that important to be concerned with here anyway in the long term- well, only capitalists, economists and the others who control your lives. But not even an earthquake could awaken this forum, nor decent AI-bots.