How large a bike is too much...

[PacificShot327]

First, 4" of leg seem nice but cothing companies' women's tall is sometimes still not long enough and you look like Lil' Abner. It gets old quick.

Darn right. I also hate how a lot of clothing companies equate waist size with leg length (bigger you are around, the taller you are? nuh uh. I'm 5'10" and I wear a size 4 (or size 6 on a good day)).

I used to take so much cr*p for being so buff that I never realized that some women just can't do certain things.

Ew, why? I take pride in havin' my muskully muskulls. My poor mother is terribly jealous. :flex:

However, as some have said here, does a stranger have the right to impede a person's dreams? I dunno.

I would give a resounding YES to this question, IF it puts your safety in question. Newbies (or anyone, really, for that matter) with too big a bike for them are DANGEROUS. If you don't have complete control over the machine you're riding, you are compromising your safety and that of those around you. If my sister ever decides to start riding (Oh, Lord...) and wants some big flashy thing like I might have at that point in the future, I consider it my absolute responsibility to make sure she does not manage to get such a machine in her hands, if not for her own well-being, but for anyone else's that might be on the road with her.

[Nalian]

If I understand your question right - I guess I approach this issue from a different angle altogether.

For those who are asking me advice and are new to riding: I don't tend to go by what specific bike someone shouldn't shouldn't get. I would go by stats on the bike. A sportster actually isn't a great starter bike for a lot of folks - some of those especially women - when it's too topheavy for them. I started on the sportster, and I'm not saying it's a bad bike to start on in general. But it's not the most ideal bike, and while it may weigh less than other bikes, it can feel a lot heavier because of where all the weight is.

When people are starting out new, I tell them that they should make sure they can flat foot the bike, and probably stay on a smaller sized bike for the bike class they're interested in, and under 50 hp for starting out. I don't find numbers easy to give for the weight of an appropriate bike - again because how the bike holds the weight and the type of bike you get is so crazily different. I usually make some effort to talk with people about how motorcycles carry weight, and how to tell when it's "top heavy" or not. I usually try and explain how a well suited bike will feel in the end - comfortable, easily balanced, confidence inspiring. All great points for a first bike.

I then explain the 50 hp thing and usually give some anecdotes related to the weight/hp of a car vs a bike - usually folks get the idea on how powerful motorcycles are from that.

I also make a concerted effort to point out first bike/not only/last bike, why its better to start smaller in general (build skills/confidence, etc). Overall this isn't a conversation I enter into lightly, but all of the above points can be made in a quick 3-5 minute conversation (obviously not a deep conversation, but enough to get the points across).

Overall I think the starting horsepower and where the bike makes all the horsepower is a lot more important than the engine size or weight of the bike.

If someone who is riding for a while asks advice...the questions are an entirely different set.

[Lion_Lady]

I think fit is important, but subjectve. If you like the bike and it feels good to you, it does not really matter if someone else thinks it is too big for you or not. If you can ride it safely, stop it safely feel the fit is right for them I say go for it. I have seen 10 to 12 year olds throw around dirt bikes that I thought were outrageously too big for them, they could hardly keep the bike upright at a full stop, but rolling through corners on dirt tracks, they flew. Looking at the Adventure riders forum I have seen photos of women who could not make it through some of the sand pits because they could not paddle the bike with their feet to help keep it upright, and they ate sand everytime, but they go back up and kept at it. soon enough some of them get good enough to not have to rely on their feet.
Just my 2 cents.

...Your advice is perfect. However, guys (and some women) say that such and such a bike is perfect for learning on. (BS, but that's another thread.) A lot of women have rode pillion and now want the controls in their own hands. But a 250cc won't keep up with their husband's larger bike, so they feel hurt and confused.

It should be the experienced rider's responsibility to ride at the "learners" skill/confidence level. A 250 will keep up with anything else. It justs take a bit longer to get to the same cruising speed.

I think that too many folks make the assumption that the first bike has to be the ONE. You've been riding so long, Rye, that you probably never had the chance to dream of riding and "the perfect" bike until you were ALREADY an able-handed rider. It makes a big difference. Many fall in love with the image of themselves on a particular machine. Be it one like their friends (or significant other) has or just one they find appealing.

The thing is, not all bikes are suited to all kinds of riding. Just as you wouldn't try to take a thoroughbred on a trail ride, or a plow horse to the Kentucky Derby, choosing a sportbike for commuting or a cruiser for long distances doesn't usually work out well.

The key is to start out on something small and 'generic' to hone the newly learned skills. Something that isn't so heavy that it is scary. I tend to discourage folks from choosing a motorcycle solely on whether or not they can get both feet flat on the ground. It limits your options too much and "flat footing" is over-rated. Learning to manage a bike that you can get only one foot on the ground builds confidence... so long as the bike isn't too HEAVY to manage this way.

A rider spends more time with feet on the pegs than on the ground anyhow, once they've got their basic bike handling skills built in...

THAT should be the first 'comfort' option. How comfortable is the RIDING position?

[Ryethil]

I think fit is important, but subjectve. If you like the bike and it feels good to you, it does not really matter if someone else thinks it is too big for you or not. If you can ride it safely, stop it safely feel the fit is right for them I say go for it. I have seen 10 to 12 year olds throw around dirt bikes that I thought were outrageously too big for them, they could hardly keep the bike upright at a full stop, but rolling through corners on dirt tracks, they flew. Looking at the Adventure riders forum I have seen photos of women who could not make it through some of the sand pits because they could not paddle the bike with their feet to help keep it upright, and they ate sand everytime, but they go back up and kept at it. soon enough some of them get good enough to not have to rely on their feet.
Just my 2 cents.

...Your advice is perfect. However, guys (and some women) say that such and such a bike is perfect for learning on. (BS, but that's another thread.) A lot of women have rode pillion and now want the controls in their own hands. But a 250cc won't keep up with their husband's larger bike, so they feel hurt and confused.

It should be the experienced rider's responsibility to ride at the "learners" skill/confidence level. A 250 will keep up with anything else. It justs take a bit longer to get to the same cruising speed.

I think that too many folks make the assumption that the first bike has to be the ONE. You've been riding so long, Rye, that you probably never had the chance to dream of riding and "the perfect" bike until you were ALREADY an able-handed rider. It makes a big difference. Many fall in love with the image of themselves on a particular machine. Be it one like their friends (or significant other) has or just one they find appealing.

The thing is, not all bikes are suited to all kinds of riding. Just as you wouldn't try to take a thoroughbred on a trail ride, or a plow horse to the Kentucky Derby, choosing a sportbike for commuting or a cruiser for long distances doesn't usually work out well.

The key is to start out on something small and 'generic' to hone the newly learned skills. Something that isn't so heavy that it is scary. I tend to discourage folks from choosing a motorcycle solely on whether or not they can get both feet flat on the ground. It limits your options too much and "flat footing" is over-rated. Learning to manage a bike that you can get only one foot on the ground builds confidence... so long as the bike isn't too HEAVY to manage this way.

A rider spends more time with feet on the pegs than on the ground anyhow, once they've got their basic bike handling skills built in...

THAT should be the first 'comfort' option. How comfortable is the RIDING position?

So like you're relling me I have this problem with sporbikes.

Actually, some things you said earlier that I probably have twisted in my little mind. A dream isn't reality. Reality here is the tried and true facts of confidence, learning the basics an developing skills and experience. To do that, one must be comfortable and (my words) dedicated further to gain this, one must have a bike that promotes all of this. (My words) A man is not much of a husband if he'd not willing to help his wife with her quest. The same goes for all that she rides with. Choose your companions carefully.

However, after a period of time, she should be able to make a choice as to what she wants to ride as a moderatedly experienced rider. And what contortions she does to be able to ride that bike is her resposibility. This last is probably more my idea as yours for I'm thinking of some women who try and ride hawgs for what ever reason for it looks like comfort isn't one of them. The same for those who try to ride sport bikes which can be uncomfortable this side of legal speed limits and are possibly dangerous due to road and traffic conditions if the pace is too high.

I preach motorcycling as a lifestyle of freedom. And yet I'm ready to steer people from their dream bike becase "I" feel they're unsafe. That is something they should learn for themselves and if so, fail for themselves. My partner is learning on a Sportster and I think it may be too much for her at first. But that's not my job. She's big girl and I need to let her live out her dream rather than be a protective mother hen.

I'm finally okay with all of this and realize that squids on 600cc sportbikes are really responcible for their own situation. And no matter how unsafe their situation is, it's not my place to take them to task for anything "I" deem irresponcible. (People who suggest sport bikes to newbies are another matter ) And what everyone is saying that person's dream is theirs to fullfil unless I'm asked.

So in the end, no bike is too big for any person as long as they are able to live with the level of comfort they accept to ride their dream bike. And comfort is the leveling factor, for a person should be comfortable and having fun. And if they aren't, then it's their choice.

Correct...

[mazer]

Alex, My suggestion. Get the butt in question on as many bikes as possible to take demo rides. Dont limit those rides to any one specific brand or CC. Start at 300 and work your way up in one brand, then do it again and again and again with each bike, each dealership - hell whats more fun than a free ride on a new bike?
I have seen more and more (especially in this economy) where people have bought a high CC hawg and turned it in for a mid range cruiser or sport bike and have realized they bought the hawg only because of peer pressure and did not realize the fit was not for them...
I have also seen sport riders get off their bikes for cruisers as well, mostly due to comfort issues. Those sport bikes can be hard on the back and wrists.
I use to be a long distance bicycle rider and I can tell within seconds if someone is riding a bike too large for them or not measured to their body. They expended huge amounts of energy riding their bikes. I see the same thing with new motorcyclists, those who have too much power or weight (of the bike) to deal with and can not loosen up for fear they will loose control etc.
Spend a week, play on the new bikes and figure it out that way.
As for help in a less experienced person riding a larger CC bike, if it was me, and I had the positive cash flow - I would purchase some motorcycle safety classes, experienced rider courses or sport bike courses on a track because no matter what bike you have, the more you are taught the more comfortable you are going to be with making the right decision about the bike that will fit you. All sorts of goodies coming from those teaching schools aside from more confidence.
My best to you Alex.

[kawgurl]

[quote="Ryethil"][quote="mazer"]
So what do I tell a woman who is convinced that nothing smaller than a VStar 950 is too small. Mostly they're not true newbies and this their first medium to large bike.
At what point should I caution someone that they maybe going a bit too fast or you really can't do that and be truly safe? [quote]

Ryethil - interesting thread. You can't tell a woman anything - don't you know that?? Seriously though - at 34 years of age, I took a MC course and bought a brand spankin' new Suzuki C50 (800cc) Boulevard right out the chute and my husband and different friends said I was buying "too small". I agree there is a LOT of peer pressure out there - bigger, faster, smoother, etc. I had to choose MY OWN RIDE and I had no problem telling the guys that! And when I straddled that 800 the first time, I was terrified. I had ridden minimally when I was a kid, had never been around bikes - never even been a passenger on a bike. But - the terror didn't last very long. I rode that bike and accumulated about 2000 miles on it in 2 months and decided ON MY OWN at that time that I needed a bigger bike for the highway miles we were doing (and being able to keep up to my husband on his BMW K1200RS)! But....starting at an 800 was not too big for me physically - I'm 6' tall and have a 36" inseam and am 'athletically' built (haha) - so throwing that bike around was not a problem for me. I moved up to a 1500 Meanstreak which was 725lbs dry weight and had a beautiful low center of gravity, low seat and taught me a LOT without being big and heavy. The 1700 Nomad that I have now is 830lbs and it actually feels heavy to me - it's heavy off the stand and is just a powerful bike - but I love it.

So I guess that's just my 2 cents - I'm not of average stature, so it works to my advantage with the bigger bike being tall. When it comes to other women and bike sizes and where to start - they have to decide for themselves and that comes with lots of research! Doesn't matter what they are riding, just that they are riding.

[Ryethil]

Ryethil - interesting thread. You can't tell a woman anything - don't you know that?? Seriously though - at 34 years of age, I took a MC course and bought a brand spankin' new Suzuki C50 (800cc) Boulevard right out the chute and my husband and different friends said I was buying "too small". I agree there is a LOT of peer pressure out there - bigger, faster, smoother, etc. I had to choose MY OWN RIDE and I had no problem telling the guys that! And when I straddled that 800 the first time, I was terrified. I had ridden minimally when I was a kid, had never been around bikes - never even been a passenger on a bike. But - the terror didn't last very long. I rode that bike and accumulated about 2000 miles on it in 2 months and decided ON MY OWN at that time that I needed a bigger bike for the highway miles we were doing (and being able to keep up to my husband on his BMW K1200RS)! But....starting at an 800 was not too big for me physically - I'm 6' tall and have a 36" inseam and am 'athletically' built (haha) - so throwing that bike around was not a problem for me. I moved up to a 1500 Meanstreak which was 725lbs dry weight and had a beautiful low center of gravity, low seat and taught me a LOT without being big and heavy. The 1700 Nomad that I have now is 830lbs and it actually feels heavy to me - it's heavy off the stand and is just a powerful bike - but I love it.

So I guess that's just my 2 cents - I'm not of average stature, so it works to my advantage with the bigger bike being tall. When it comes to other women and bike sizes and where to start - they have to decide for themselves and that comes with lots of research! Doesn't matter what they are riding, just that they are riding.

No you can't tell a woman what to do, not if her mind's set on something but like most woman I know, I want iit to be a perfect world too.

The Nomad is a near perfect bike for a lot of women I know. One of the women that stayed over at our house during Christmas rode one. She had the same complaint that it was heavy eps. when taking off from a standstill. When I tried it and think I found out why. It's power band seems raised a bit up the RPM scale. So it doesn't come off a stand still as agile as most V-Twins. But the power makes it a more bearable bike from 10 -70 mph. It seems to have unlimitless powerd but some of the heaviest low speed handleing characteristics that I've seen. Neat bike!

[kawgurl]

She had the same complaint that it was heavy eps. when taking off from a standstill. When I tried it and think I found out why. It's power band seems raised a bit up the RPM scale. So it doesn't come off a stand still as agile as most V-Twins. But the power makes it a more bearable bike from 10 -70 mph. It seems to have unlimitless powerd but some of the heaviest low speed handleing characteristics that I've seen. Neat bike!

Glad you like the bike, Ryethil - but when I said it was "heavy" off the stand I meant PHYSICALLY heavy pulling it up off the side stand. As for power, the Nomad has power to burn and I don't find it handles heavy at low speed at all - in fact it's fairly nimble for its size. Cheers!

[Lion_Lady]

When folks ask for a "first bike" recommendation, I always suggest: Used, small, light. Just something to gain confidence on. I will also vehemently suggest folks who seem to be dead set on a big, brand new anything. Mainly for the "tear factor" of the inevitable newbie drop. I'll suggest folks check out the cost to insure their dream bike before making the decision.

Beyond that, it is up to them, and folks are gonna do what they're gonna do.

P

[IcyHound]

Convincing someone about what to ride is about your personal eloquence then anything else if they are already 'set'.

I don't ride cruisers. I don't care for them so i can't help. I'd suggest a sport bike or a street bike because that is what I like.

I'm 5'7 with a 33 inch inseam. I can flatfoot my FZ6. I don't feel the need. I can also pick it up.

There is no 'fairer' sex in my opinion. Proper training and a proper motorcycle. Most of these people need to sit on bikes. They will be surprised that the proper bike size for them is often the one they are most comfortable on as well.