ABS on a bike that was non-ABS

[Skier]

I would like to see articles where ABS is outperformed by a good or great rider in real world scenarios.

You completely missed my point. I did not say ABS is or can be outperformed by skilled riders with traditional systems - all I am saying is that it is not an "accident avoidance system" like some people mistakenly believe it to be. 100ft ABS assisted stopping distances don't mean dodo if the truck you're trying not to hit is sitting at the 80ft mark. Do you get what I'm saying now?

You said:

people mistakenly assumed that they could stop shorter than with a traditional braking system in any situation, which is just not the case.

Which I corrected, since it's not true. Okay, with four wheel vehicles locking wheels in gravel might stop the vehicle faster due to the plowing of the tires, but on a bike, the above quote is not true for modern ABS bikes on road surfaces.

Here's a question: would ABS been considered an accident avoidance system if the rider panics and locks a wheel, causing either a lowside or contact with the object ahead? And ABS could have prevented either from happening.

[Gummiente]

You said:

I know exactly what I said. The fact that you have chosen to take it out of context and completely misinterpret it is something that I have no control over. If you are not going to take the time to properly read and understand what I say before responding, do us both a favour and skip my posts from now on. Thank you.

[Skier]

You said:

I know exactly what I said. The fact that you have chosen to take it out of context and completely misinterpret it is something that I have no control over. If you are not going to take the time to properly read and understand what I say before responding, do us both a favour and skip my posts from now on. Thank you.

Your context was:

Rhadam, you need to realise that under certain circumstances the stopping distance will actually be increased with an ABS system.

Are you trying to state "don't assume because a bike has ABS you can make physics-defying stops?" If so, I agree. But you continue to put forth false information about the effectiveness of ABS, perhaps in an attempt to strengthen your argument.

What am I missing?

[Gummiente]

What am I missing?

PM sent. If you still don't understand after that, I can't - and won't - help you any further and your replies will be ignored.

[Skier]

Gummiente's point:

all I am saying is that it is not an "accident avoidance system" like some people mistakenly believe it to be. 100ft ABS assisted stopping distances don't mean dodo if the truck you're trying not to hit is sitting at the 80ft mark.

I asked:

Here's a question: would ABS been considered an accident avoidance system if the rider panics and locks a wheel, causing either a lowside or contact with the object ahead? And ABS could have prevented either from happening.

Let me repackage things: ABS is an accident avoidance system because it allows for superior braking than a vast majority of riders.

Revisiting the ABS-retrofit: spend the money on rider training. You can take that with you to your next bike.

[HYPERR]

Safety devices on motor vehicles can be divided into two categories. Active and Passive. Active devices helps you minimize the chance of you getting into the accident. Passive device minimizes the damage to you once the accident occurs. Air bags are of course passive safety devices. And ABS are of course active devices.

[sapaul]

Eye witnessed.

Around 2002 I was on BMW rider course with a new RT. There were several other new RT's there as well as some other models.

One of the exercises was emergency stopping.

Now when I have an instructor in front of me I try to clear my mind of junk and listen and learn. Let me tell you that there were some riders there with disbelieving looks on their faces when they were told to, set up and squeeze. We started with plenty of run up and slow speeds getting quicker and quicker, each time the instructor was waving his arms to stop later and later. As I did a few runs I got better but 1 guy in particular could not get the set up right and the instructor kept going to him and trying his best to help.

The guy had on a BMW flip up and this contributes to the story.

He now starts his run, probably around 100kmh, instructor waits, waits, waits and then raises his arms. This guy, now had enough of getting it wrong, grabs a handful of front brake.

Bike pitches violently onto the front suspension, back end of bike lifts and this guy is now doing a stoppie ON AN RT His flip up, flips down, the instructor runs out of the way, as do the rest of us, the instructor shouts "let go the brake" which he does, which in turn drops the back wheel, the guy lets out the clutch and shoots off down the track.

We stood gobsmacked as we had been told that no ABS bike could do a stoppie. Bulldust. I have seen this with my own eyes

I rode my own RT much like a ride all my bikes, usually pretty hard and those brakes were awsome, but not knowing or understanding how they worked could get you into more trouble than non ABS

[redwing]

Hey RhadamYgg ...my bike has abs and linked brakes ..the front brake lever works both front and rear.
Lots of good advice in this thread... especially about prcaticing.

I read a test on abs vs. non-abs brakes and I donot remember which one rated better. I do remember the difference was small. The difference of a few feet in stopping distance (maybe 6 feet at most) and tenths of a second in stopping time is not for or against abs. I got abs to give me an edge for stopping without locking my wheels.
And the point about any braking system stopping a rider before an accident occurs is a good point. Ya gotta stop without banging your bike into that idiot who pulls out in front of you.

I remember reading about abs not functioning well on a turn. And ride with an awareness of my limits.

Also my instructor at the beginners class said crusiers couldn't pick the rear wheel up.????? Harleys ... Honda VTX ...I think that is good. I could probably pick my rear wheel up and even with abs you probably could to in a hard stop. I like your B-king, lots of power and had I known about it ... I would have considered the B-king along with the other 3 bikes I looked at. However my R1200R is very much what I was looking for.

Might try opening a savings account and waiting it out. Keep looking for the parts you need even if you have to buy one or two at a time. A school teacher (Wawarosky) said most accidents are premeditated carelessness. the key word is MOST.

Bee safe

Robert

[Gummiente]

Let me repackage things: ABS is an accident avoidance system because it allows for superior braking than a vast majority of riders.

Once again, it is NOT an accident avoidance system and to label it as such gives a false and misleading impression as to its capabilities. ABS helps reduce the chances of an accident happening by allowing the rider to brake hard while maintaining control. It does not prevent or avoid an accident from happening if the rider engages the ABS too late. As I mentioned already, all the ABS and superior braking in the world isn't going to help with a truck sitting 80ft away in a path that requires 100ft to stop.

HYPERR pretty much nailed it with his description. Still, you should Google the term "accident avoidance system"; you'll see that while ABS is an essential part of an Accident Avoidance System on cars, it is by no means the sole or stand alone component defining the system.

[Gummiente]

I rode my own RT much like a ride all my bikes, usually pretty hard and those brakes were awsome, but not knowing or understanding how they worked could get you into more trouble than non ABS

Exactly! Well said.

As for the ABS stoppie, it just proves that all the technology in the world is no match for basic physics.