OS Choice - Linux, BSDs, or Windows, they all work fine!

[jonnythan]

If I go buy and Linux Computer from a Store or Buisness. I expect to get it home with an OS that works, hardware that is installed and working, and no problems when I boot and use the machine. That DOES happen. Good for linux OEMS.

You didn't read that review, did you?

The comparison has to start from there to be fair. Thats really the only way. We can go on all day about how this piece of hardware didn't work for me in X OS. Example: Jonnythan's sound card or my blackberry. His didn't work in linux, mine didn't work in windows.

The main difference I was pointing out is that, in Windows, you download and run an executable driver installer.

In Linux, you often have to download and compile source code, and occasionally edit text files or download and install other external libraries and dependencies.

My main point, from the very beginning of this discussion in the other thread, is that when things don't "just work" with Linux you are in for a much more involved process than with Windows.

[MrShake]

It would be really nice if you could get something equivalent to the package manager in Ubuntu for Windows though, eh? They've certainly gotten a lot of things right and I have high expectations for them as a result of the gutsy release.

It would be, but, really... there's *so much* Windows software out there, and it's *so* easy to download and install thanks to MSIEXEC that it's not worth the trouble.

The day you can download a single executable file that will install a piece of software onto any Linux machine will be quite a day indeed.

But that will never happen.

I just had to take this on one specifically:

The following sofware installes on any linux machine with a 2.4 kernel or higher (same as you might say win98 or higher):

VMWare Player - single .sh file
VMWare Server - single .sh file
IES4Linux - single .sh file
UltraMixer - jvm based DJ Sofware - single .jar
Wii Media Center - javabased - single .jar


I'll keep going if you want. These are DOUBLECLICKABLE to run in any gnome/kde environment and single command (sh file.sh or java -jar file.jar) in any CLI based linux machine. I think the most complicated is the media center, you do have to unzip the downloaded file first. You know, to save on download times.

[MrShake]

If I go buy and Linux Computer from a Store or Buisness. I expect to get it home with an OS that works, hardware that is installed and working, and no problems when I boot and use the machine. That DOES happen. Good for linux OEMS.

You didn't read that review, did you?

I did read the review, but are you aware that there are WELL over 150 linux OEM manufacturers in the US alone? Thats why I eliminated specifics. I, personally, have used Ubuntu's OEM install option to provide READY-TO-USE computers to people that are linux based that "just work" when they get them home. NO EXTRA WORK for them.

The comparison has to start from there to be fair. Thats really the only way. We can go on all day about how this piece of hardware didn't work for me in X OS. Example: Jonnythan's sound card or my blackberry. His didn't work in linux, mine didn't work in windows.

The main difference I was pointing out is that, in Windows, you download and run an executable driver installer.

In Linux, you often have to download and compile source code, and occasionally edit text files or download and install other external libraries and dependencies.

My main point, from the very beginning of this discussion in the other thread, is that when things don't "just work" with Linux you are in for a much more involved process than with Windows.

But thats not a generically true statement.

I still, to this day, have not solved my blackberry issues. My wife's XP computer WILL NOT recongise my blackberry, despite downloaded drivers and firmware updates.

The process is not necessarily more involved either, its just different. When people have issues with their machines not "just working" be it windows or linux, they tend to call me and pay me to come fix it. OR they have their "smart friend" come over and fix it. The general public no more able to troubleshoot driver issues in windows than they are in linux.

[Nalian]

It sounds like all you're looking for is a fight. I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about this, it's childish.

What do you do with your linux box on a daily basis that makes you feel like an expert? Do you know what .sh and .jar files are? You stated that you double click them and it installs stuff - that's not the case at all. I believe you double click and things happen, I just am not sure you understand what's happening when you do that.

[MrShake]

It sounds like all you're looking for is a fight. I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about this, it's childish.

What do you do with your linux box on a daily basis that makes you feel like an expert? Do you know what .sh and .jar files are? You stated that you double click them and it installs stuff - that's not the case at all. I believe you double click and things happen, I just am not sure you understand what's happening when you do that.

You know, I'm feeling a loss of fire on this as well. I ranted for 4+ days. But please don't high and mighty this by saying its childish and then feeding the fire.

Ubuntu handles .sh and .jar files VERY well. Double click, a window pops open and asks you what you would like to do. RUN is an option. EasyPeasy. I'm not sure really what you want to accomplish with this statement. I use linux EVERY DAY as a personal HOME desktop OS. I run (yes, RUN, you could also say own) a company that hosts websites, builds custom computers and servers, supports small and medium sized datacenters and businesses running mixed environments of linux, unix, and windows. I maintain, personally, at my own home no less than 3 linux SERVERS running the gamit of services. So what do I do with linux every day? I use and maintain multiple configurations and systems, thats what I do.

and, so you don't think I'm an idiot....

.sh file is a shell file. Typically written using BASH shell script, but often contains python or perl. This is an executable file that contains a list of commands and/or code to take input from and deal with a user.

.jar is the executable java program file.

I'm not assuming that anyone is not knowledgeable about basic use of linux, what I am assuming is that I have my finger on the pulse of the linux desktop world on a daily basis, and I am fully aware of the current state of linux desktop usability. I have hands-on experience with the facts I've stated.

If you guys want to lets this die, fine, I don't care, I'm tired of it as well. I accomplished what I wanted to by moving this away from the other thread. All I as, as I have asked again and again, is that you do NOT discourage others from trying something new.

[Kibagari]

If you guys want to lets this die, fine, I don't care, I'm tired of it as well. I accomplished what I wanted to by moving this away from the other thread. All I as, as I have asked again and again, is that you do NOT discourage others from trying something new.

It is the responsibility of the reader to filter the information he or she is taking in, not the poster's. A person can post their opinions and whatever facts they will, yet at the end of the day it is the reader's responsibility to check the facts and make their own informed (or uninformed) decision and no one else's.
Suppressing someone's free will? Hardly. If a reader is so gullible as to take some anonymous poster's claims as God's word, they are exercising the free will to do so, and thus you shouldn't stand in their way. If a person wishes to listen to the opinions at hand, that is their own fault for not thinking for themselves.

After all, who are you or I to tell a person what the truth is?

The truth is up for grabs; you decide what it means to you. Let everyone else do the same.

[JC Viper]

Windows is a pretty good operating system considering the fact that it has to work (for the most part) with thousands of different computer configs out there. Apple is smooth, thought not without problems of its own, because Apple controls and only has to support the limited amount of hardware configurations.

Once I setup BootCamp and installed Vista on my MacBook most of the drivers had already installed and all I had to do was pop in my Leopard CD to get the rest of the drivers. Once that was done Windows really did "just work" and I was in business (UAC is easy to get rid of).

Linux on the other hand may require more user input but the good thing about a open source is that there is a community out there that can find bugs and fix them or supply drivers to make the system run just as nice as any other OS. Usually the fixes are released in a timely matter, unlike MS Patch Tuesday or Apple's deny then fix policy.

I run gOS, SuSe, Ubuntu (once in a while), Windows XP and Vista and now OS X. Which reminds me... time to get a bigger hard drive for both desktop and MacBook.

[Nalian]

I asked the question because based on your statements, I wasn't convinced that you knew what was going on under the hood.

It's great you can use linux for your everyday desktop needs - but you still haven't answered what it is that you do with linux everyday - what needs it is suiting perfectly. It's not an attempt to feed the flames, it's an attempt to understand what it is you do that you're claiming works so well.

The problems I named (compiz, beryl, emerald, DNS issues, wireless connection issues) are not one-off things. These are major problems that Ubuntu is looking to address as they move forward. These are major stability issues, as well as things that will prevent it from being used on the mass market. If you don't know what those components are (compiz, etc) , then I'm not surprised you haven't run into problems with them.

You keep claiming other people are making statements and not backing them up, but it seems you're just outright ignoring large swaths of my posts where I ask you questions. What is your response to the creator of Ubuntu when he says Ubuntu is not ready for the mass market. You are claiming it is, he is claiming it's not. I'm inclined to go with the guy who created the thing, as opposed to you, but maybe you have some point out there that I haven't considered.

If you want to let it die, then be my guest. But we aren't having a discussion when you ignore large parts of the content so lets not pretend otherwise.

[Skier]

I find the thread's title to be offensive: what if I run any of the BSDs?

[MrShake]

I asked the question because based on your statements, I wasn't convinced that you knew what was going on under the hood.

It's great you can use linux for your everyday desktop needs - but you still haven't answered what it is that you do with linux everyday - what needs it is suiting perfectly. It's not an attempt to feed the flames, it's an attempt to understand what it is you do that you're claiming works so well.

My linux server installs run as web servers, serving web pages (some well of that year mark), acting as DNS servers, FTP installs, Asterisk PBXs, VMWare Server platforms and more. My desktop user for linux on a daily basis consists of what 99% of people do every day. I check my email using thunderbird, I brows the web using firefox and opera, viewing youtube videos and flash applications, blogs, pictures, news, games, the entire gamit of web browsing. As well, I listen to my large mp3 collection, I review videos of former magic performances of mine. I watch my Jeff Dunham DVD (my current fav) while maintaining and developing websites, from CMS driven ones, to completely custom ones. I maintain company documents that are primarily in MS Office formats (spreadsheets in .xls, and text documents in .doc format from MS Word). I run a Wii media server from my desktop so I can share media with my Wii. I play with DJ software. I play games from Unreal Tournament 2004 to Sauerbrauten to Ninja. I write perl scripts to make buisness related server management tasks go quicker. I use my linux box to take messages on the phone, use skype to to talk face to face with relatives and friends all over the world. I chat using Pidgin with people on Yahoo, AIM, MSN, ICQ, Jabber, and MySpace Messaging. Do I need to continue?

The problems I named (compiz, beryl, emerald, DNS issues, wireless connection issues) are not one-off things. These are major problems that Ubuntu is looking to address as they move forward. These are major stability issues, as well as things that will prevent it from being used on the mass market. If you don't know what those components are (compiz, etc) , then I'm not surprised you haven't run into problems with them.

Compbiz, Beryl, and the such are not major issues. They are fluff and unnessicary. That is why they are disabled as default in the current ubuntu release. They are unnessicary and offer no functionality, just prettyness.
What DNS issues are you having? I have had NONE on any of my machines. Wireless USED to be a problem, but in my recent experience (since 7.04) its been 99% resolved. It seems to "Just Work" on every computer, desktop or laptop I've used, with the single exception being an older belkin usb adapter with an obscure chipset that doesn't work well in windows either. So, basically, I know, VERY WELL, what these components are, and they are not really a problem.

You keep claiming other people are making statements and not backing them up, but it seems you're just outright ignoring large swaths of my posts where I ask you questions. What is your response to the creator of Ubuntu when he says Ubuntu is not ready for the mass market. You are claiming it is, he is claiming it's not. I'm inclined to go with the guy who created the thing, as opposed to you, but maybe you have some point out there that I haven't considered.

I have backed up everything I've said with specific examples, every single thing. If you want me to respond to Mark Shuttleworth's statements, I can. Mark is a single person, he is not even a developer. The FACT that a Tier 1 OEM is selling Ubuntu at ALL says a ton about Ubuntu's readyness. Add to that the 100s of other providers that are selling linux pre-loaded machines, and it proves to me that Linux is mainstream and ready for it. Is it a replacement for windows? Nope, its an alternative. Mark Shuttleworth did not CREATE ubuntu, he funded ubuntu, there is a big difference.
Lets not also forget to mention that Linux is a growing and ever-changing monster. You can not user a 1 or 2 year old excuse to characterize the OS. You can not depend on an interview from even 6 months ago as a bible for what linux is today. It changes. Ubuntu's 6 month release cycle allows for problems to be fixed (wireless is a good example), and fixed quickly.

Too many people try to box linux into the complaints of the last few years, and choose to ignore the strides its made over the last 6 months.

If you want to let it die, then be my guest. But we aren't having a discussion when you ignore large parts of the content so lets not pretend otherwise.

I've ignored nothing.


I have still, YET, to see anything concrete from anyone that refutes my statements that apples-to-apples that one platform is better than the other.