Hey kids,

I'm dieing of boredom these days as street riding on my old beast is basic daily-rider transport moreso than any real fun, so I'll be picking up a dirt bike before next year rolls around. Likely a used MX/Enduro bike (YZ/KX125, KDX200/220, or maybe a 4-stroke 250cc, or something more trail-oriented like the XR400 for getting further into the woods), but...

How many of you have experience with RECENT ADULT SIZE dirt bikes from a Chinese manufacturer?

I've seen some 200cc, 250cc bikes with air-cooled motors so far, but nothing larger, and nothing with liquid-cooled motors. Any rumours of something bigger on the horizon? Any good info on improved quality control from them? cuz really if they aren't even as good as a mid-80s Yamaha IT200 than it's hard to justify looking at em...

Any GOOD news out there?

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"Zounds! Zorched by Zarches, Spaceman Spiff's crippled craft crashes on planet Plootarg!"

For Sale: Ninja 600 with parts bike, needs minor work, $30, no title... (GEE THAT DOESNT RING ANY WARNING BELLS DOES IT?)

No.

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'07 Suzuki V-Strom DL650
An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.
Molon Labe!!!

Only saw one that I would trust. It came with a Honda motor and could be serviced through Honda. Cost all much as a Honda though. Motor and trans were Jap. rest of bike was China.

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SEE NO EVO
HEAR NO EVO
SPEAK NO EVO

and above all

RIDE NO EVO

Read my blog
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/view ... hp?t=22842

I think Zhongshen did this with Suzuki SV650 engines for awhile too, then they made a 750 based v-twin Superbike fronm this engine to endurance race at Suzuka, etc. I haven't seen this in dirt bikes yet. Hyosung also had some sort of domestic-market deal with Suzuki before moving off on there own with a distinctly SV650-based engine. Post a link if you remember the manufacturers web-site.

As the other poster said, we already know the general pundit's answer is "NO" but things are changing rapidly and Japan has been farming stuff out to Brazil, China, etc. for years already. They obviously have a lot of factories pumping out stuff. Just a cursory look at what the Chinese are offering tells you they are moving more rapidly than the Japanese did 30-40 years ago.

I’d like the opinion’s of people who actually OWN a 200cc + adult size dirtbike AND have some mechanical skills and knowledge. In a post in the dirt bike forum, HighSide posted that his kid's Chinese bike has turned out to be a better value than the Suzuki JR50 he also bought at the same time. He’s pointed out the problem areas, etc. The little-kid-market is already being tackled and the bigger stuff is *coming soon*...

The car market in China is being heavily infiltrated by replica vehicles too. (Almost blatant theft really). 2008 isn't here yet and realistically I expect 2010 or so for the Chinese stuff to really make a splash into the Japanese dominated pond, but it never hurts to look a little early.

There are a ton of factories who have the manufacturing facilities, much of the knowledge, and the competition is fierce.

Someone is eventually going to step-up the quality control, bump up the price 20-30% to cover the costs and we'll have bikes that are comparable to current model Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo stuff in a auto market... which may be just fine for casual dirt bike riding even for a guy who's grown up on decent Japanese stuff which has been better than the typical rider for *at least* 10 years.

So, again the question is who actually owns one of these bikes?

_________________
"Zounds! Zorched by Zarches, Spaceman Spiff's crippled craft crashes on planet Plootarg!"

For Sale: Ninja 600 with parts bike, needs minor work, $30, no title... (GEE THAT DOESNT RING ANY WARNING BELLS DOES IT?)

http://stores.ebay.ca/ALL-STAR-SALEZ
This is where I bought mine. They seem to be decent quality for 1/5 th the price of a comparable Japanese model. A kid had one of the new 125s out at WildRose the other week and it seemed pretty decent. Some salemen will try to convince you that the chinese bikes have Honda motors but they are actually clones. They are not made to the same tolerances as a Honda and while some of the parts might fit they are not exact copies. They are good enough for a cheap-playbike, but push them hard and they will break easier. You can buy a new 125cc kids bike for under $500 so you really can't complain.

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HighSides Trips and Pics
http://totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=16003

I hope you aren't looking at those machines that are sold at CSK Auto stores and the like!!! If so back away slowly, now turn and run!!!

This kind of quality is essentially what I would expect from this genre of motorcycle.

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'07 Suzuki V-Strom DL650
An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.
Molon Labe!!!

From what I understand about Chinese motorcycle manufacturing:

1.) Brand name means nothing to them, where it is everything for the Japanese. I feel that they are starting to get this, but as it stands now the bulk of Chinese bikes are built to a price, loaded in to containers and shipped as essentially no-name models. The North American importer will often buy a container-load of bikes, put a name on them, and sell them here. I think many of these North American importers have been stung buy poor quality and essentially forced out of business.

2.) Everybody and their dog manufactures Honda clone bikes in China. There is a huge industry in manufacturing Honda clone parts in China with varying degrees of quality control. "Manufacturers" often runnig out of garage-sized facilities will buy these parts and manufacture bikes. As you can imagine, on this scale quality is not job-1. Building them cheap is.

3.) Getting general parts for your Chinese dirt bike has been nearly impossible in the past, but is just now starting to get easier. When my son broke his clutch lever bracket, we had to buy an aftermarket one and make it fit. We then had to get the cable re-lengthened etc. It's a far bigger PITA then just stopping by Honda and picking up the part. Now, many of the parts for my sons dirt-bike are available through the ebay store, including complete new bodywork for about 40 bucks

4.) The bikes are disposable. Keep that in mind when you buy 'em. They are cheap for a reason. If you get a crappy one, it is not worth fixing. You are hauling it to the dump.

5.) Things are getting better. The North-American importers are demanding higher quality from higher volume producers. In the past year, even the bikes being imported by the ebay store I mentioned in my previous post have come a long way, and are even cheaper to buy. Just make sure that you buy from somewhere will a large volume and longer history of selling them. They will be getting the higher quality bikes.

6.) You still don't want to buy one if you are not-mechanically inclined. Little things are likely to still happen. From what I've seen in the way of improvements, in a few years the Japanese could be in trouble. I will have to wait and see on that one to be sure though. For now, over 50% of the kids bikes that we saw in the forestry this year were Chinese. This has to be hurting the big four.

On a side note, this year my kid wiped out crossing a mudhole about 20" deep and nearly the whole bike went under while still running. We pulled the bike out, lifted the front wheel so the bike was vertical and drained a lot of water from the air-box and muffler. Four kicks later it sputtered to life and has ran great ever since. This is the only time I have ever had to kick start it. Some parts of this bike really impress. Others, not so much.

The difference in price is what made me take the gamble. $2800 bucks for a Honda 100 in Canada or $700 (at the time I bought ours....now less) for a knock off. I've owned lots of Hondas and they are awesome and bullet-proof. I thought I would take a chance and the above is what I have learned along the way. If the kids get more serious, I will likely buy Honda play-bikes again in the future (not just better quality, but better performance, suspension etc...). If the Chinese quality continues to rise, this will make the decision much more difficult.

High_Side

P.S. I finally got the carb sorted on the Suzuki JR50 and it has been working awesome. I hate Mikuni carbs, but the bike is solid.

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HighSides Trips and Pics
http://totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=16003

Check every fastener on the bike.

Then check them all again.

The bikes are put together poorly, manufactured poorly, and basically just trash. I would buy one... but I wouldn't have to pay for my labour to keep it running, which is hella-expensive.

Honestly, if you think you're going to save money on one of these bikes compared to a jap... you're wrong.

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Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.

Highside,

Thanks for the retail link and other comments there. Your overview seems pretty realistic, and pretty much jives with my own thoughts.

I'm sure in a country with a population of over a billion that there's MORE THAN A FEW Chinese Eric Buell, Team KR, John Britten type-guys in some of the key companies, who are working on improving there reputation in the bike world. Even with the (percieved?) limitations of Communism things are basically ramping up towards acceptable *mainstream* North American quality.

I've been thinking that by 2010 we'll have something comparable to a late '80s early '90s Japanese motocrosser. Company's like Zongshen and Lifan have been in the biz for a long time, and they seem to be developing the "brand" and setting up dealer networks better than most of those "garage-size" knock-off firms. A few of these bikes are now looking better than "disposable". Lifan had a pretty big setup at the last bike show I attended a few years ago.

The first *interesting* Chinese bike I saw was a 200cc dual-sport which one of the new dealers in town had on there showroom floor a couple years ago... i remember them saying it was not yet DOT certified for street use then, but I wonder if a couple of the manufacturers haven't managed to dole out the cash and go through all the red tape to get them EPA/DOT approved yet. That's a big hurdle for some of them, which is all the more reason to build hot off-road-only bikes instead.

There's gotta be a Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Yo-Yo Ma, of the motorcycle industry waiting out there or maybe another mini-Mao Tse Tung...

What I find odd is that the Korean firms, like Hyosung havent made a decent MX bike yet. That may be a sign of how strong the competition is... but they could build a KDX220 or WR200 replica. Maybe they're going to stick mainly to 4-strokes like the rest of the world.

If Ducati can beat the Japanese in MotoGP, just think what the population of China can do up against the Japanese. And you can bet they are hungry for it, and very determined to prove themselves after many hard decades (centuries?) in the "back seat".

Even BMW just started to race there 450 motocrosser this past year. They'll have there hands full, but at least with mx bikes people won't complain about turn signal switch-gear being located on the wrong handlebar! :mr green:

Since I have a little time this weekend, I'll do a little digging on the web, and drop by a couple local dealers, and maybe swing by some of the cheapo dealers too, like CanadianTire and such to see if they've got anything new coming in... i think it was CanadianTire that had the models which appeared to be Yamaha RT100/125 or TTR150 "replicas"... I'll see if anything is coming down the pipeline for the 2008 January Bike Shows

//monkey

_________________
"Zounds! Zorched by Zarches, Spaceman Spiff's crippled craft crashes on planet Plootarg!"

For Sale: Ninja 600 with parts bike, needs minor work, $30, no title... (GEE THAT DOESNT RING ANY WARNING BELLS DOES IT?)