Holding in clutch while braking = bad habit?

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TxCZShooter
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#21 Unread post by TxCZShooter »

I know I'm just a newb....but in reference to using the clutch, there's a big difference from riding the clutch to engaging the clutch. In a manual, I to engage the clutch when breaking, and I have aplied this to my limited experience on a motorcycle as well. But I was tought to always keep my foot off the petal (riding) unless shifting. So IMO, I would say "riding" the clutch would be more damaging (if at all) then fully engaging the clutch. However, like the above posters have said, doesn't seem like many people ever need them replaced under normal circumstances.

Just my .02

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cherokeepati
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#22 Unread post by cherokeepati »

Did you take the same MSF course as I did?? When doing any slow, tight turns (as in the figure 8's) we were told to ride the clutch and use the throttle to find the sweet spot that gives you momentum but control the speed with the throttle at the same time. I still use that when coming up to a stop light that is about to turn. That way I can still break or speed up when needed. I do it in city traffic and on the highway in traffic jams. I make a game of it to see how long I can go before putting my left foot down. :laughing:
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#23 Unread post by ArcticHarleyMan »

HungPower wrote:Yeah you see, because for a car, there is no engine compression so I would always hold in the clutch for no apparent reason =\. Actually, to switch gears quickly if ever need to be I guess, but you're right, I guess with a motorcycle it's more preferable to not hold in the cluthc and have engine compression help with the braking.
I beg to differ with your statement. There is ALWAYS engine compression, unless you are coasting in neutral, which is what you are doing whith the clutch in. One of the rules of driving anything, from a m/c, to a car, to a transport truck. Never coast. If you do, all you have to rely upon for stopping is your brakes. If they fail, the only other option you have is to run into something else, or aim up a hill.

Engine compression can be used as a brake and the lower the gear, the more engine compression you have. :santa:

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#24 Unread post by ixolas »

Although new to bikes, I am not to mechanics. The wet clutch of a motorcycle is made to endure long use in the disengaged position (in gear but clutch squeezed). Cars are not, if a car's clutch was used as frequently or in the same manner as a bikes clutch it would burn up in no time.

As for squeezing the clutch and only using the brakes it is a matter of choice. If no one is behind you or if surounding drivers look like there paying attention, using the engine to brake and barely using your actual brakes is fine. Just remember to use the rear brake when doing so. The rear will stop you less, using mostly engine stopping, but illuminating your brake light as much as possible.

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#25 Unread post by qwerty »

ixolas wrote:Although new to bikes, I am not to mechanics. The wet clutch of a motorcycle is made to endure long use in the disengaged position (in gear but clutch squeezed). Cars are not, if a car's clutch was used as frequently or in the same manner as a bikes clutch it would burn up in no time.
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Multi-disc clutches are used in bikes for increased clamping in a smaller diameter area. Think about it, where would you put a 12-inch diameter clutch and flywheel on a motorcycle? Many auto clutches are used as frequently as a motorcycle's, with no ill effect.

The throwout bearing of a car is designed for 50 hours of use. Most motorcycles are designed to be held in gear when stopped at a light. The throwout bearing of the bike is designed for much more use.
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#26 Unread post by Kal »

I drop in and out of the bite point all the time during my normal inner city riding.

If I am braking heavily I will dip into and out of the bite point to give extra braking without locking the back wheels up.

Mind you I also change gear and use my rear brake during cornering if I feel it needs it.
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Sev
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#27 Unread post by Sev »

Why would you want to hold in your clutch while you brake? Unless it's emergency braking where you should be downshifting as fast as you can, while you do it.
Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.

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#28 Unread post by SausageCreature »

Why would you want to hold in your clutch while you brake? Unless it's emergency braking where you should be downshifting as fast as you can, while you do it.
Why would you not? When I want to decelerate at a slower rate, like when a light ahead changes to green and I have to wait for a stopped car to get going, if distance allows I let air resistance slow me down and the engine idle.

I don't see how engine braking can give you any more braking power than your rear brake. I guess if you drop it down a gear or two the engine pulsing might act as a sort of ABS, but under normal conditions why not use your brakes, being as they are specifically designed for the purpose?
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#29 Unread post by jonnythan »

Sevulturus wrote:Why would you want to hold in your clutch while you brake? Unless it's emergency braking where you should be downshifting as fast as you can, while you do it.
I'm I'm riding in 4th gear and see a red light up ahead, I'll usually drop it down to third gear... but not second. Going below 25 or so will make the bike chug in third gear, so instead of quickly downshifting twice (pull clutch, shift, release clutch, pull clutch, shift, release clutch, then pull clutch in while in first gear to stop), I just pull the clutch in and stop with my brakes.

Saves an awful lot of shifting and I see no reason to do it any other way.

I suppose that if you're in a bike where you're in first gear up to 40mph, then it makes sense.
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#30 Unread post by KarateChick »

SausageCreature wrote:
Sevulturus wrote:Why would you want to hold in your clutch while you brake? Unless it's emergency braking where you should be downshifting as fast as you can, while you do it.
Why would you not? When I want to decelerate at a slower rate, like when a light ahead changes to green and I have to wait for a stopped car to get going, if distance allows I let air resistance slow me down and the engine idle.

I don't see how engine braking can give you any more braking power than your rear brake. I guess if you drop it down a gear or two the engine pulsing might act as a sort of ABS, but under normal conditions why not use your brakes, being as they are specifically designed for the purpose?
If this makes any sense...If you are coasting to a stop/slow down, how do you get your bike into the proper gear if you are somewhere between 1st and whatever - shouldn't you stay in gear so you are in the correct power band of the bike in case you suddenly need the power? A friend had to swerve into another lane because some driver was about to turn him into a sandwich with a stopped car in front of him and he was still moving but hadn't reached the stopped car yet.

If you really need to creep along on the bike, MSF instructors taught us stay in gear along with clutch and rear brake feathering.

I've always used engine braking in the car so it seemed normal to do so on the bike - flashing the brake lights in both cases.

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